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  #61  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:27 AM
hnd hnd is offline
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Originally Posted by unchained View Post
name one product that another automaker is bringing out in the next 2-3 years that is better than any tesla? The truth is they are all making joke electric cars because they make more money selling gas cars and they don't want to cannibalize their own business. Have you not noticed that the only desirable electric cars are made by the company that only makes electric cars? Tesla. That's not a mistake. Ford/BMW/MB/Audi/GM/FCA etc. don't want to make something you'll want. Because it hurts their real business. Funny huh?

also, how are you going to charge your 'other automaker' electric car on a trip across the state? public charging infrastructure? Good luck, it's garbage. Until those 'other automakers' spend billions on a charging network and on retooling their entire business for electric cars, Tesla will be fine. That's another 10 years at least because the shareholders of those margin constrained traditional automakers won't stand for the expenditures. Senior management knows this too.

Also, if you didn't notice, Tesla's plan wasn't to be the biggest, most profitable automaker. Their plan was to change the world. That has happened, as people are now looking to an electric car future. How have they demonstrated that this was their plan? They gave all of their patents to the 'other automakers' to help them get off their ***.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/all...are-belong-you



that is what is impressive about tesla and has them poised to be successful eventually. their charging network. its genius and why they've succeeded much farther than any other EV option.
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  #62  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:30 AM
hnd hnd is offline
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Originally Posted by Steven Pederson View Post
Rivian?

rivian is in investment stage. they have 0 revenue.
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  #63  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:23 PM
ro7all ro7all is offline
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are you going to pay full price? or tax breaks an other subsidizes? if so are i am against it because the rest of us are helping you buy your car.
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  #64  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:40 AM
unchained unchained is offline
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Originally Posted by Steven Pederson View Post
Rivian?
Rivian is a pipe dream. Also, it's hideous lol. Finally, will it be better than Tesla's pickup truck in any way? Not price, not range, not looks, not charging infrastructure, and certainly not being issued by a stable company with scale.

So tell me again how Rivian is better than any tesla?
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  #65  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:42 AM
unchained unchained is offline
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Against $0 profit. No worries, just a few more millions to investor loss.
he made it sound like the potential $41 million in fines (it won't amount to anywhere near that) were going to break the company.

Guess you missed that part.
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:48 AM
unchained unchained is offline
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Tesla advertises two packs @ $13,600 plus $1,100 for equipment for a typical household plus install . So what is the additional costs for solar collector installation for the anticipated EV demand? You, not me, should do the arithmetic and make your point demonstrating the wisdom of that investment.
make your mind up...are you arguing dollars and cents, or are you arguing that there's no way to limit our reliance on fossil fuels. Because you keep switching back and forth whenever it's convenient.

first you said that electric cars don't help the environment because they're still relying on power generated predominantly by fossil fuels, namely coal. In another thread (about electric boats at niagara falls) I showed you to be wrong about this, as the source of the grid power in many jurisdictions sees only a small amount from fossil fuels, and much of that is natural gas based, not coal. Even in your own state. Then you turtled and disappeared.

next when shown the solar option here in this thread, you argued that solar doesn't change anything because you'd just be feeding the grid, and the grid is still a fossil fuel based source of energy (which, again, is not the case in many jurisdictions)

then when shown that you needn't feed the grid you can generate, store, use at your leisure using powerwall systems, and now you're saying its too expensive.

An electric car battery was about $40,000 to replace 8 years ago. Today it's less than half that. In 4-5 years it will likely be half that again if not less once production really takes off with panasonic and tesla gigafactories.

in any event, you've taken a side, dug in, and don't want to hear about anything else. That's your prerogative. Doesn't make you right.

Last edited by unchained; 06-11-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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  #67  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:51 AM
unchained unchained is offline
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Originally Posted by ro7all View Post
are you going to pay full price? or tax breaks an other subsidizes? if so are i am against it because the rest of us are helping you buy your car.
I agree, it's a bit goofy to help people buy $100,000 electric cars with government subsidies. If someone wants to take an early adopter position, let them do so with their dollars.

I live in Ontario Canada, and up until a year ago, we had a $14,000 government subsidy on bought electric cars. That was changed to a limit of $75,000 purchase price, then it was changed to $0 subsidy when a conservative government came in. I agreed with that decision despite being an electric car owner/buyer.
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  #68  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:56 AM
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Thunderjet Thunderjet is offline
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I would buy an electric car in a heartbeat if the $$$ numbers made sense. But when I can buy a 2019 Honda Civic LX for $18K in Feb of this year and the car has averaged 41 mpg for the first 4,500 miles with gas costing about $2.30 a gallon the cost of the electric just does not make sense.

Get me into an electric that holds 2 adults and a decent trunk for under $20K and the car has a safe 250 mile range I will buy one tomorrow.
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  #69  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:35 PM
unchained unchained is offline
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I would buy an electric car in a heartbeat if the $$$ numbers made sense. But when I can buy a 2019 Honda Civic LX for $18K in Feb of this year and the car has averaged 41 mpg for the first 4,500 miles with gas costing about $2.30 a gallon the cost of the electric just does not make sense.

Get me into an electric that holds 2 adults and a decent trunk for under $20K and the car has a safe 250 mile range I will buy one tomorrow.
You're not the target market for electric cars yet (those who only look at sticker price and not the full ownership cost). The tech means the only way to incorporate it into a vehicle that has the potential to be profitable is to make the offering a luxury or sport vehicle to attract those willing to pay that premium (engine and transmission might cost the makers $5000...while electric batteries and motors might cost more like $15,000...hard to hide that $10,000 premium in a $20,000 vehicle).

Still a ways away for that market that just wants a new car for the cheapest price possible.

With that said, a Honda Civic is a bit of a tin can compared to a $35,000 model 3 (or a $37,000 model 3 standard range + which is 240 miles range, 0-60mph in 5.3 seconds). The Civic is an excellent car but is light on comfort, light on perks, light on performance.

When you factor in your costs over 5 years of powering a Tesla Model 3 vs. teh costs over those same 5 years on a Civic...then compare the depreciation on the civic vs. the model 3...you'll find you're paying pretty similar over prices for the two vehicles.

depreciation on that $35,000 model 3 is anticipated to be about 40% over 5 years while it's like 50% on a Civic. That's $14,000 vs. $9,000. $5,000 in teh Civic's favour.

Drive 15,000 miles a year in your civic and you're at 75,000 miles for 5 years. If that's at 40 mpg (dubious...not sure that's reasonable to expect but let's pretend) you're at 1875 gallons of gas at $2.80/gallon national average. $5,250 for Civic fuel. The model 3, to drive 75,000 miles would require about 12,000 kwh of electricity. What's your cost on that...$0.10/kwh? That's $1200. Let's pretend it's $1500 to be safe. So we're at $5250 vs. $1500. $3750 in the TEsla's favour.

The difference sits now at only $1250 (still in the Civic's favour). I reckon the cost of servicing a Civic, and the cost of brake jobs will more than eclipse that over 75,000 miles, so now the Tesla is cheaper. Any government incentives on the Civic? Nope.

Is the Civic quick, quiet, beautiful, big enough for 4 adults and has 2 trunks? Nope. The Tesla is.

So it's not really 'expensive'...when you factor in everything. If all you look at is sticker price today, sure electric cars 'cost' more. BUt that's being pennywise and pound foolish.

Last edited by unchained; 06-11-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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  #70  
Old 06-11-2019, 02:12 PM
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Thunderjet Thunderjet is offline
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Where can you buy a Tesla model 3 for $35,000 out the door plus sales tax? And you are forgetting about the cost of insurance to factor in. I pay $240 for 100 ded and 0 ded collision. Plus it really doesn't matter to me what the national price of gas is. Its $2.30 where I live. Then you have the concern about parts and repairs. Honda dealers are all around me, places that work on Teslas are not. Besides, we like the idea we can park the Civic anywhere and not worry about door dings.
I didnt buy the Civic for comfort and touring, although it is pretty dang nice. And I can drive it across the country. I have yet to see a electric plug in at any of the stores we travel to or places we visit. This is an argument neither will win. Buy what you like and so will we.
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Last edited by Thunderjet; 06-11-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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