How much of a cushion do you need between your boat and max towing capacity?

[RMBin303]

Good advice already, especially from GBS.

I've spent time towing above the rated capacity of the tow vehicle, right at the capacity, and well below.

I had a 2003 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins, towing a 12,000 pound fifth wheel and a 5000 pound boat in tandem. The Ram had a tow capacity of 15,350. Really wasn't bad at all.

My 2012 RAM 3500 has a tow capacity of 19,000 pounds. Towed tandem for a while, got rid of that boat, now tow just the 12,000 (or a boat). Incredibly comfortable ride.

The situation that is close to what you are talking about is the one that I just got out of. My wake boat is 7000 pounds. Spent the last 3 years towing it with a 2011 Yukon Denali XL with a 7800 pound tow capacity (usually when we go, my wife takes the truck and tows the RV, I tow the Malibu with the Yukon). Even though I was under both the payload as well as the tow rating of the Yukon, it was NEVER comfortable. Any speeds above 70 MPH could induce trailer sway. Transmission temps were always around 220, and got up to 250 going over the passes in Colorado. Engine temps were 220 as well.

Last week we went to go on a trip to Lake Powell. Wife insisted on taking the dogs, plus my nephew, and we wanted more room inside, so decided to take the Yukon. It was 95* out, and got hot enough on the first hill that I got a warning light, and it turned the air conditioning off. Turned around, and got the truck.

Today, that Yukon was traded in on an Expedition Max with a 9000 pound tow capacity.

So, the moral of the story is to get the right tow vehicle. Which I really don't think is a Subaru. My advice to you is if you want an SUV, look at something like a Jeep Grand Cherokee (7200 pound tow rating with diesel or Hemi) or a Durango. The German SUVs (which those are actually based off of) would be better choices if you don't like something from FCA.

[rjitterbs@gmail.com]

Way to many people over buy for their tow vehicle. Even if towing the trailer/boat of your choice is mathematically possible does to mean it is feasible. Friends of ours had a 15 or 16 Toyota V-6 pickup that mathematically was qualified to pull the 26 or 28' tall front travel trailer they purchased. It got used twice, scared them to death and then was sold. They now have an R-Pod and love it. They are never home. We have a Starcraft 15RB (we hate hotels/motels) we used for regular trips to see my Mom and my MIL. It was initially towed with our 14 Flex. Doable, comfortable enough but the engine worked its butt off. I even set the 15RB up with a
WD/anti-sway hitch to make the tow more comfortable and safe I purchased a new 17 F150 RCSB to make the trip to see my Mom after my 97 YO MIL moved in with us. This slight increase in wheel base (+5") and power (395hp instead of 245) makes all the difference in the world. I only tow a 16.5' boat and if I owned anything bigger I would have purchase a long bed (8') F-150. Do not put yourself and the other people on the road, who you do not know, in jeopardy by under powering or as I prefer to call it, over towing.

[wh500special]

Originally Posted by walleyec

So, I've had a few threads on here about getting a tow vehicle for my Stratus 186VLO. I'd love to get a pickup truck but it's just not in the cards right now. I looked at minivans but the max towing capacity is 3,000-3,500lbs. I have looked at the Subaru Ascent SUV which has a max towing capacity of 5,000lbs.*......

While bigger is probably better and overkill is certainly preferred to being on the margin, I would think the Subaru Ascent would be acceptable for your boat, even with a few people aboard. I tow a similar sized boat with a similarly-sized vehicle (size, weight, wheelbase, power, etc.) to the Subaru you’re considering and find it to be a well-matched setup.



While it is obviously preferred that you have plenty of headroom in towing capacity, none of us know or can guess what kind of margin Subaru has already built into the rated capacity for the vehicle. I didn’t find anything to confirm that Subaru rates the capacity to the SAE J2807 standard so they may be doing things their own way, but I would really be surprised that at 5001 pounds they expect to have problems. They don’t want their customers in a ditch and – more to the point – don’t want to be paying for in-warranty breakdowns that might accompany towing at their limit.



The vehicle could be maxed out at 5000 lbs, but it could also be that they were wanting to hit the same rating the rest of their competitive field is rated (explorer, highlander, atlas, pilot, et al) so they might not have bothered with a higher rating. It might be that 5000 pounds is the practical limit since they’d deduce that 500-750 pounds from the hitch weight would be the upper bound of what the car should carry cantilevered behind the rear axle. It’s doubtful the 5000 pound rating is arbitrary or right on the edge however.


Except when it comes to braking, trailer weight isn’t everything when it comes to towing. Boats are easier to tow than big, boxy trailers like a travel trailer or enclosed cargo trailer. They’re more aerodynamic and less susceptible to sway and instability. You’re going to know it is behind you, but I wouldn’t think this would be a case of the tail wagging the dog. Your boat looks to be a fairly low-profile bass boat with small windshields, so it is going to tow easier than a 3000 pound Winnebago, which they also must consider as a possible candidate.


Your fuel economy is going to be pretty bad when towing and will be probably equivalent to a full sized, big engine truck…maybe worse. I’d imagine that 4-cylinder is going to need higher RPM’s to do the job most of the time too, so it may make some noise compared to what you’re used to.


You WILL absolutely need brakes on your trailer. Certainly the Subaru manual will require brakes for something that size and many states legally require them for those weights too. Even with a full-sized truck you’re into the range where brakes ought to be considered mandatory. Surge are common, but electric are better. And you will probably need towing mirrors since the Subaru is probably narrower than your boat which will blot out your rearward visibility.


I like the Ascent. It seems like a nicely packaged vehicle and it has that Subaru gestalt. It has been getting really good reviews by most of the auto publications. If you’re seriously considering it be sure to google towing reviews and other information that’s out there. There are some good and bad summaries of its competency. Also visit the Ascent Forum and look over common rants and raves about the vehicle…pay particular attention to the transmission related discussions as it seems the Ascent may be experiencing somewhat common CVT problems (temper this statement with the fact there is no way to know the statistical extent of things by looking at forums). Transmission issues won’t get better by applying a towed load.


Your boat is a good candidate for Ascent-sized vehicles and even minivans. They handle well, brake well, drive well the 95% of the time you’re not pulling the boat, and get decent fuel economy. They even have payload capacities that rival a lot of half ton pickups. You seem apprehensive about this size class of vehicle which may be reason enough to upsize, but as far as “handling” the towed boat goes these vehicles do better than you’d assume.



Vehicle handling doesn’t improve when a trailer is hitched up, so starting with something with competent handling in the first place is a good idea. Independent suspension helps. The full-time AWD adds a lot of capability and on the road and on the ramp. Crossovers and small SUV’s have some advantages over clumsier full-sized trucks in this realm, so don’t suffer as bad when hitched to a trailer as you might expect.


Properly set up, there’s no reason to assume an Ascent/Explorer/Flex/Pilot/Traverse/Highlander/Atlas won’t be a competent, safe tow vehicle for your rig. A 3500 pound rig like yours trailed behind a 5000 pound capacity vehicle should be a comfortable and safe setup. Get brakes, get mirrors, and drive the speed limit (or less). You’ll always know the boat is back there, which isn’t a bad thing.


Best wishes,
Steve

[jjy]

I've towed a Ranger 1880 and now Alumacraft 205 Comp SPT with my Honda Pilot rated at 4500lbs towing. I've weighed both boats and the Ranger came in around 4300lbs and the Alumacraft about 3800 to 4100lbs. I also weighed the entire package at truck stop and determined I was slightly over GVWR with the Ranger and slightly under with the Alumacraft loaded for camping. I've installed airbags and monitor transmission temps closely. The Ranger was very tongue heavy, the Comp SPT not so much. My Pilot has almost 170k miles and towed both boats for around 70k of those miles. The highest transmission temps I've seen were around 220F going 75mph in the hills. Normal operating temps are around 175F to 200F. The important thing is both the Ranger and Alumacraft trailers have brakes. My car stops with trailer like the boat isn't even there. A larger tow vehicle is always better but if you stay within the vehicles ratings, you will be fine. Having said all of that, my next vehicle will be rated for at least 6K lbs to provide more cushion for my growing family.

[muskyman73]

I would be concerned about being able to stop ; when you need to. Having 3000 lbs behind you - will that vehicle be able to stop with that load behind it ?

[jjy]

Originally Posted by muskyman73

I would be concerned about being able to stop ; when you need to. Having 3000 lbs behind you - will that vehicle be able to stop with that load behind it ?

I think as long as you have trailer brakes, you are good. My tandom has 4 disc brakes and I can stop like I'm not even towing.